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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:15 pm 
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Haha, thanks mate.
I read you're thread and I think I got some pretty crazy standards to meet.
But I have always been the type that if its going to be done. Its going to be done properly the first time. And then i shouldn't have to worry about it for a long while and then it should last another 30 years or so :?
I'd really like to do a detailed build thread from ground up through the entire process. Thats the aim anyway.

So i'm in the process of getting the body right with as little filler as necessary. There is so many rust holes in this thing, so much more than when i bought it showed (but to be expected). So everything has to be metal welded in. It just has to be done right! Just won't allow myself to put unnecessary amounts of filler in there (in fact i hate the idea of using filler at all, even if it is inevitable).

Few things i might have blemished, such as the rear wheel arch isn't quite as good as i'd hoped with my attempted fix. Its only a little dent that i could fill, but might need to get a panel beater to look at it and fix it.

And at the moment i'm trying to work out if i feel confident enough to do the rear quarters or not (both need replacing). But either way i'll need someone pro to fix up a few other issues this car has. So if its not going to cost an arm and a leg, i might get them to run a new piece of metal around the rear arch where its had a few problems and just neaten it up. Or i could leave it, i don't know.

Then once most of the rust is done where i can see it and easily get to. It'll be stripped then onto the rotisserie (or pushed on its side) and getting the underside and all the other bits i missed with the welder completely reworked and ground down so it looks all nice underneath. Then time to paint the bottom side in Gravitex or equivalent. Then... finally i can take the time to strip it back and paint it.
Then start to rebuild it again. With the, err, New Stuff.

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Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
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Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:25 am 
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Not much has happened for a while. But i have been looking at my power plant to build up.
I have a question I want to pose to you all. See what you think...

Engine currently It is a 2.3L with Z24 crank, Z22e Pistons with twin 45mm webers on the side. Tuned alright currently, will sort that out later and it is coupled with a 68Deg cam.
Now...
I was going to bring the compression up to 10.4:1 and being a stroker motor, will have some torque anyway, but will only pull to 6500 anyway. I have it in mind to stick a 74 deg cam in there. And jet the webers accordingly in an attempt to make it rev a little harder up top. It will be used on weekends and yes i am aware that this is a big cam, but because it will only be a weekend car... i don't really care, just want grunt.

Now I plan on going SR20 later, but don't have the cash for a conversion currently. But being L20, i'd need to get it all engineered anyway and I have got the Datsport front end kit for the SR which i'm going to use for the L20.

So do you think I should just pick up an N/A SR and fit that and sell the L20 setup. It will have more grunt than the built L20, more fuel economy and probably more reliable, but sound appalling.But it will fit straight in, and just wire it up and engineer it, and that would let me bolt a turbo on later with a few mods.
OR, build up the L20 for old school Datsun sound (love the sound of Twin Webers on full Howl in the morning) with a bit of grunt for the time being with the 74 cam. OR just bolt it back together the way it is with the 68 deg cam and save some money for the turbo job later?

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Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:55 am 
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Bolt it all back up with the 68 degree cam, and save your money.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:08 pm 
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SR20Datsun wrote:
Bolt it all back up with the 68 degree cam, and save your money.

I agree, I think you will have a ball with your current engine package.
Put that hundred odd dollars saved from the purchase of a cam towards a surge tank or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:32 pm 
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+2 A 68 works is a great cam for the street. Plus you'd have tons of torque down low and the whole mid range with a 2.3 L banger. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:54 pm 
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sell the webers and go throttle bodies and ecu.
You'll be doing the fuel system sooner or later neway...


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:04 pm 
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Another valid point. With my L18 I had more power and consistent power all throughout the rev range when converted to L18e :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:14 pm 
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Ok, all valid points! I know the 68 is a good street cam, but i'd probably still have more fun with a 74 giving it more top end and still drivable just not that economic - I concede however, that the 74 Cam still won't give me neck breaking acceleration like a Turbo motor is anyway. So probably is no point.

On a side note, mY old L18 ran about a 68 inlet with 72 exhaust, but Just didn't have the right induction setup being SU's to push it as hard as I wanted. I had the Hitachi's Re Kitted using SU needles and Jets but was only jetted for a standard L18, not one worked with the cam I had, and I just didn't get around to getting better needles for it (was a mistake of mine, i regret it, anyhow...) My concern with the 74 is that the motor won't want to rev as hard as the cam will want it to being stroked out pretty big, otherwise i'd get it if i wanted to stay L series, so i suppose the 68 will compound the motors natural torque and mid range anyway (which is probably why the previous owners put it in).

I just don't know what the timing specs of it are to set it up properly. I know its a 68 because I went and had a chat to Stewart Wilkins about it. But he couldn't tell me timing figures either. Told me some tip about setting it up with the Exhaust opening 3 degrees before the Inlet or something like that, but that went over my head. I should read the Datsport article and actually measure it, if i can.

Onto Weber vs EFI. Webers sounds so much better than EFI though. Its just natural fact. The induction note from the 45's just win hands down, its old skool and authentic. Also, I don't know where to start with making an EFI package for an L20, And i don't know how keen i would be to buy a new setup from someone who makes them. And is there any point if i'm going EFI down the track later? What ecu and stuff would you use. It'd probably cost more for EFI in the long run than the webers if I am going to do the SR job later. But I guess I could use my surge tank that I already have ready with it.

Hmm, decisions.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:51 pm 
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Ross,
You are to be congratulated mate!
Admire your determination and skill.

Remember this. "The enemy of good, is, better"
Cam specs for the 68 are here.

http://www.datsport.com/Camshaftspec.html
first one, top.

Hmm, SR or the L.
I would say efi on the L is out cost wise.

Consider what your L is worth as it is. 2.5K to 3.5K ?

An S15DE package minus trans is around 1K
Trans from $300 to $750.
With your skills the fuel system can be done cheap.
You can rewire the ECU your self.
Use the S15 exhaust mani & fab up a 2.25" drain your self.

I guess you could install the S15,all up for less than 3.5K
without cutting corners or 2.5K if you do.

I think they are great value. rev well, mild mannered but can be fanged hard.
The S15 is 160HP fly wheel. With 260Z internals in a SR housing giving good gear ratios
some cams later on, t would be a nice fun supersprint car.
decision time. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:28 pm 
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Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
The man has spoken.

See what you can sell your L stroker for with the webers as a package, and make a decision from there

the fact that you want to go to an SR20 eventually, need to get it engineered and already have the Datsport fitting kit, makes it a logical decision to convert to an SR20 now

Do you have a deadline you wanted the car painted and finished by? whatever the case may be, start sourcing parts for the conversion now, like a surge tank, efi pump (maybe fab an intank setup from an R31 or similar) return/feed fuel lines, FMIC setup (at least design and cut what is needed now before paint), and the wiring, PLMS maybe?

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:25 pm 
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hi im a new member im looking at your progress awesome job mate i have the same car with the same problems as your i made ne seals up and stuff as well... i would go a sr20 for shore mate u wont regret it one bit!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:56 am 
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Thanks mate.
Its been a while since i've posted, but I should have some progress to report in the next few weeks. Car has been in the panel beaters for a while getting some work done. But next few weeks should reveal some work.
Only issue with the SR20Det model, is that I have limited cash flow for it for the entire conversion to be completed properly. And it WILL be done properly with no corners cut. I can't stand people doing a conversion and dodgying things up just to have a fast car. Doing an engine conversion is nothing new in the slightest these days, so if you're going to put in the effort... do it properly from the word go. Make it all function properly and easily accessible where practically possible, have it neat and clean, practical and safe. You'll have much less problems in the long run with a tidy car with both your involvement and also others. And its something look look back on and take pride in.
I have since spoken to Baz about this power plant issue, and am assessing all options currently.
But stay tuned!

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Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:30 am 
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Alright, SO back in the start of February, I decided it was time to get the rust repaired that I didn't want to do myself. Although I slightly regret submitting to defeat on this one before even attempting it, It also made it slightly easier because I didn't need to worry too much. Getting her ready for the panel shop.
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Dropping her off.
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I had a bit of a wait before I got it back, but now a lot of the work is done.

Only thing I was concerned about (which I probably would have avoided a bit more was the amount of warp-age on the panel, But once I had it back it looked ok, Obviously bogged over to hide it. I would have liked a little less filler, but maybe he straightened it out before hand.
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Here is some more work.
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Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:38 am 
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Anyway, That was done, and a day later I came to pick her Up.
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And as we were loading her back onto the trailer, I noticed this...
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I don't know what happened, and i've already bent it out myself. I was a little annoyed about it when I saw it, but the main thing is I don't know how it got there! It looks like someone has tried to put a wire on there to tow it onto a car trailer. But i don't know why he would have done that.
I thought about getting him to fix it. But then figured it could be in there for another month or so waiting for him to do it, plus hiring a trailer again to get it home. It just wasn't worth it. But at least now the car is home.

In that exercise, I had the rear 1/4's welded on, Inside guards repaired, Boot floor repaired, wheel well rust fixed, Rear Beaver panel welded back together, and front arms jigged down so that the gaps were right and all the lines are good (because it was in some prang earlier). So I'm getting there... slowly.

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Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
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Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600 Toy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:25 pm 
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Ok, so getting into the swing of things now. I should post up yesterday's and today's progress.

Yesterday's job was the removal of the wiring harness (front, dash and rear). Removal of steering box, steering column, and pedal box. Removal of brake master and clutch master cylinders. Also took off the front valance. Will bolt that on later, and fix up that dent (almost finished already anyway). And other stupid things that SHOULDN'T be in an "Engine Bay" such as battery trays and washer wiper bottle brackets etc...
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Today's Job was the suspension. So this morning the front was disassembled and then this afternoon the rear was taken out.
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Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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