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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:37 pm 
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Location: Canberra
It's a real pity that's the way things went as rack and pinion is really the missing piece of the puzzle,I've personally replaced my steering box 3 times with worn out units in the search for a decent box that isn't work, so my project has been in mothballs because I was sick of spending good money on shitty old used parts that IMHO aren't fit for purpose, safe and I just didn't have the time or money in the last 12 months to pick up one of these kits

The current box I've got is apparently "within spec" but still nothing compared to my daily driver but I'm unfortunately not willing to invest further in the car unless I can get a steering solution that doesn't make the steering feel like it's 47 years old :rofl:

I've seen the kits on 510realm and they have done great work on that kit but not sure how challenging getting it engineered in oz would be

Looks like it's sitting in the shed gathering more dust atleast for now

swanny


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:52 pm 
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Location: Blue Mountains, NSW
green200b wrote:
Basically he got sick of people asking thousands of questions and then not wanting to pay his asking price. I haven't seen him for a while but last time I spoke to him he had definitely had enough. One member on here apparently pushed and pushed trying to get every last cent off the price that he could.


That's sad.
People always want something for nothing. Or for as cheap as they can. Unfortunately datsuns are no different and just because there are a few left over fanatics on Ozdat doesn't mean some will also try and take that advantage of getting as much as they can for little. It's a shame because i remember him being quite honest about the parts he was using for the conversion also.

I think it was either the MR2 or Toyota AE86 steering rack and a Honda column (the rest is a mystery to me). It's all well and good to source the parts but the labour involved and the r&d is what you pay for.

I will always remember that a member on here (i still know who it is) gave me some parts and even paid for the postage. He told me that eventually it'll go around and ill help someone out etc etc. I've always carried that with me since that time and tried to help out as many datto guys, even just average blokes as best i could for nothing since that time. Kinda like a pay it forward scenario. Unfortunately not everyone lives by that.

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Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Posts: 137
Location: w.a
Agee I think unfortunately with Datsuns they have always been a cheep car and most of the guys who buy them are the backyard DIY type. Unlike a more expensive car where someone would just spend the cash and save the time and buy a part that has been engineered and just bolts straight in.

I have power steering R and P in my 510 and the drive is heaps better. I would of brought one of his kits if they were available when I did mine. The price was very reasonable for what's involved. But looking at his pics I wouldn't of had enough clearance for the 13b as the exhaust is on the steering Colomn side and it is a very tight fit with minimal clearances. A mate I used to work with said I should make and sell them. I said the Datto 510 community are more the DIY type and would not pay for it lol.

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Last edited by rx510 on Sat May 06, 2017 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:12 pm 
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Haha, that is too true, some are not like that though.
Have you got a build thread or links to pictures of the setup you used? I've seen quite a few r&p setups, not seen any power assisted ones yet unless its using the electric assisted steering?

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Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Location: w.a
RJB510 I now have a signature link to my build. There are some pictures on there of my setup.

Perhaps some of the Ozdat forum members should email James who does the rack and pinion setup in the US and see if he is interested in building some rh drive crossmembers. Baz from Datsport gets stuff sent from the US, perhaps he might be interested in getting these engineered and selling them?

Group buy perhaps? http://www.jbcoachwerks.com/

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Location: CRACE, ACT
This thread might have died?? ... though I suspect there is still some interest in getting a rack-and-pinion setup that works. Further to my previous posts, I have recently done some fine tuning of the tie rod / rod ends. I experimented with rose joints with Chinese aftermarket spindles and adjusting rings/washers to test for adjustments in case of bump steer. It made me nervous that the spindles did not exactly match the original ball joint / steering arm taper. Further, the rose joints had only just enough angular displacement. There is a really neat solution, as follows. Remove about 2mm from the underside (NOT the top) of the steering arm, but only the end where the ball joint mounts. Judicious and careful application of an angle grinder with a flapper wheel and an electric die grinder produced required results. Target thickness is 16.0mm compared to standard thickness of 18mm. Concentric to the axis of the spindle and at about 20mm diameter, create a round shoulder and to ensure that the ball joint can easily achieve its full angular displacement in all possible positions: check this with the boot removed from the ball joint and the spindle of the tie rod end inserted in the steering arm and the nut firm but not tight. I now use Toyota Corolla (outer) ball joints TE489L and custom 4130 Chrome Moly adjusting sleeves trimmed to be 125mm long. You can get these together as a kit from David Lawson at All Japanese Panels and Parts in Adelaide, though you do have to trim about 8mm off each end of each adjusting sleeve. The result is that the tie rod end provides full angular deflection, equal to the original Datsun 1600 part. There is also plenty of adjustment should you choose to use extended lower control arms: I don't. There is also a margin of safety for the unlikely but possible extreme situation when turning full lock and you drop a wheel into a big pothole or hit a kerb and the suspension fully bottoms out on full lock, and then some. It also covers the situation where extra low springs are fitted and the extreme situation presents ... but without any dramas!

I forgot to mention, that despite the distance between the rack rod ends in my shortened 910 rack being slightly longer than the (greater than original) distance between LCA pivot pins, I found that the changes in toe in/out and with bumps are minimal and I didn't need to adjust for bump steer ... the many hours of detailed measurements and calculations of changes in steering geometry have proven to be spot on. Having said that, there is always room for improvement / fine tuning.

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Last edited by AlanDatsomefun on Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:42 pm 
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We have not given up on producing a universal fitting & handling kit with rack & pinion steering.

We will be using all NEW parts including the rack. We will be staying with our wide track setup for a number of reasons.
We will be using different steering knuckles for the application Ie, Rally or low street/race.

A wider track will make the springs FEEL softer since you will be using a longer lever on them. So a wider front track will make the front suspension feel softer, promoting a reduction in UNDERSTEER. A wider track on one end of the car rather than the other will affect the way that load is transferred when cornering. When Porsche developed the 917/10 out of the 917K, they had a number of handling issues, one of which was power oversteer (going from 600 to 1000 HP -- duh!!! ). When they developed the 917/30, they actually reduced the rear track some. So the changes looked like this...

Track Front/Rear (rear as a % of Front)
917K 1564 mm / 1584 mm ( 101.3%)
917/10 1620 /1638 ( 101.1%)
917/30 1670 / 1564 ( 93.7%)

The result was that when cornering, the load would be transferred to the outside front wheel sooner than the outside rear wheel since the front wheels had a wider track and thus were traversing a longer distance for a given amount of body roll. This will tend to reduce OVERSTEER.

A wider track will lower the roll centre at that end of the car, thus making it softer in roll. This is because the car's CG will not change, and thus the vertical distance between the CG and the roll centre at that end of the car will increase, kind of like using a torque-wrench with a longer handle that pivots at the roll centre. So a wider track at the front will make the front softer in roll which will once again tend to reduce UNDERSTEER.

A wider track will tend to reduce the load transfer to the outside when cornering, which in general will increase cornering power since you'll be able to get more TRACTION from the inside tires. So once again, increasing the track at the front will tend to reduce UNDERSTEER.
So in general, making the track wider will increase cornering power -- but -- it is important to maintain an optimum ratio between the front and rear tracks as a means to managing the load transfer from the front to the back, and thus the resulting balance between the two ends of the car.

Now, widening the track using spacers or wide Zero offset wheels also does a number of other things to the geometry...
1) It increases the front scrub radius, which can increase the steering effort and affect the feel and kickback.

2) It can increase the load on the bearings since the load will be cantilevered further out then the suspension designer may have intended.

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Last edited by Baz on Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Alan and Baz,
Appreciate both of your inputs! The thread isn't dead, there ate just less people capable of having these discussions i think. Also, a lot less people on ozdat these days. There are still a few of us here though!

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Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Location: sydney
Thats an awesome write up boys and i look forward to seeing what gets released


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Definitely keen on this one baz, when do you think you will be selling these?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:00 am 
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At this time I believe it will be around 12 months.
Lots to do with this project. Do not wish to cut any corners & get it right first time.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Good to see your still working on new products baz.
I guess 200b parts for your current handling and conversion kits are getting thin on the ground, guess that's why you want to use all new parts for the new kit.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:47 am 
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Nad015 wrote:
Good to see your still working on new products baz.
I guess 200b parts for your current handling and conversion kits are getting thin on the ground, guess that's why you want to use all new parts for the new kit.


You nailed it. That's is the major problem with using donor parts. So hard to find & then there is also a compromise in the design.
With all new parts supply is no problem.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:48 pm 
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Looking forward to seeing this project come to fruition Baz.

The steering box is one of the major let downs 1600


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:34 pm 
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Location: CRACE, ACT
Some early questions were asked regarding increased track width with rack-and-pinion conversion. Result of my conversion is 35mm increased front track and 30mm at the rear with 240K trailing arms, coupled with 5-stud conversion all around.
Wheels are 200SX / R33 16x6.5 with 40mm offset and 205/45-16 tyres.
No flares required. Everything fits neatly within the guards ... just the look I was after: disgustingly original.
Only a couple of things suggest is is anything but: somewhat wider wheels; 280mm ventilated rotors with 4-spot Sumitomo calipers up front; and 290mm rotors and R31 calipers at the rear.

... and when needed: 200Hp from a 2.1L stroker EFI L18 delivered via a 5-speed and 4.1 R180 LSD.


Attachments:
Wheels.jpg
Wheels.jpg [ 388.74 KiB | Viewed 231 times ]

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Last edited by AlanDatsomefun on Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:20 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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