Ozdat Home Feature Cars Ozdat Classifieds Event Calander Links Trade Link Tech Resource Merchandise Donate Web Mail
It is currently Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:24 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 5:34 pm
Posts: 1920
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.ph ... &start=135

_________________
http://www.healingchambers.com.au


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:54 pm
Posts: 1748
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Awesome, will have a read :thumbsup:

_________________
build-threads.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 5:34 pm
Posts: 1920
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Another good discussion regarding using a steering rack
http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.ph ... &start=225

_________________
http://www.healingchambers.com.au


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:54 pm
Posts: 1748
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Icehouse does great work, always trying something new.

_________________
build-threads.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 5:34 pm
Posts: 1920
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
The last page shows them having made a complete new crossmember incorporating a rack with all the correct formulas and angles factored in, quite interesting to see how it actually turns out

_________________
http://www.healingchambers.com.au


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 3:53 pm
Posts: 60
Location: CRACE, ACT
Thanks for the interesting revelations: the AE86 crossmember with MR2 manual rack looks like a really good way to go, especially with the LCA inner pivots being double-sheer bolted rather than pins like the OEM 510. Having said that, I've seriously raced several Datsun 510/610 rally cars, and whilst I broke other suspension parts, I never broke one of these LCA pins and have never seen one break (I've seen some bent ones).

Advantages I see with AE86 X-member and MR2 rack: X-member appears to allow greater clearance below the engine sump and installing and removing LCAs will be a breeze. Road clearance might be an issue on a severely lowered car?

In my setup which uses a reversed 510 X-member: installing engine/gearbox is tight and there is little clearance between the uppermost bolts of the rack mounting straps, and sump - I get around this by temporarily installing long bolts (through chassis rails, crush tubes and X-member) that allow me to drop the X-member down, bolts providing alignment for when I jack the X-member back up; removing and replacing LCAs is possible with the rack in place, but is very fiddly.

Ultimately, a fabricated X-member with LCA pivot positions corresponding exactly to the effective rack length (distance between centres of rack rod end ball joints) and in the same horizontal plane, would be the way to go, if you have the time to build the necessary jigs and the skills to fabricate the whole thing.

As I suggested earlier, and Baz suggested before me, a fully fabricated bolt in sub-frame, crossmember, LCA, tension rods and etc., appears to be the way to go. Significant improvement over the OEM Datsun 510 steering geometry can be achieved by having long LCAs and a correspondingly short rack. Incorporating longer LCAs is one reason why Datsport's (200B-based) conversion provides greater control over steering geometry. Longer tension rods would also help. It is CRITICAL that the rack has exactly the right effective length (Rule of Thumb: LCA pivot - to LCA pivot distance = rack rod ball joint to rack rod ball joint distance), but even when you get this right you can still end up with bump steer because of differences in the arcs traced out by LCAs and rod ends (see my drawing, where I've tried to get these to correspond as much as possible).

If these factors were incorporated into a ready to install sub-frame / x-member and etc, it would allow the geometry to be comprehensively measured and tested before being installed, and the same set-up could be accurately replicated. This screams out for somebody to actually build one that could be sold as a kit.

_________________
Things work best when it matters the least, and ...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:23 pm 
Offline
Guru
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 10:09 am
Posts: 2620
Location: Lonsdale, South Australia
Further to my comments on page 1 of this thread and Allans comments on the use of longer lower control arms being desirable.
We are absolutely committed to using long LCAs. This requires a short rack.
Pic is one of the racks we a considering. These are available new at a reasonable price in quantity.
Also available in LHD.


Attachments:
Rack.jpg
Rack.jpg [ 20.57 KiB | Viewed 3439 times ]

_________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
www.datsport.com
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 3:53 pm
Posts: 60
Location: CRACE, ACT
See the photo: based on my installation with the shortened 910 Bluebird rack (mounted behind the X-member) and an L-series engine, there is still some room to accommodate a shorter rack.
Depending on your choice of engine it is likely that starter motor and/or rear of engine will come into conflict with the lower intermediate shaft (not fitted in this photo - refer to earlier photos). I'm estimating that if the rack is shorter than 590mm (Centre of rack rod end ball joint to centre of rack rod end ball joint) with corresponding distance between LCA pivots, things would start to get really tight. To gain a little more clearance it could be worth considering moving both the X-member and rack further forward in the chassis, and perhaps having the LCAs swept back slightly. This could work with a X-member that has LCA pivot bolts within the X-member (like 200B, Bluebird 910, S12 and etc.) rather than pins like the 510.
Based on a rack with an effective length of, say, 590mm (Centre of rack rod end ball joint to centre of rack rod end ball joint), my estimate of the effective length of the LCA (pivot to centre of lower ball joint) would be 327.5mm (compared to pivot to centre of lower ball joint length of 285mm for standard 510 LCAs) before track width started to become a problem for street registered car (that is, exceeding 1310mm, compared with 1270mm original track). I'm guessing that LCA effective length of 327.5mm would be close to that of the Datsport 200B-based conversion set-up?


Attachments:
EngineInstalled~RackLocation.jpg
EngineInstalled~RackLocation.jpg [ 977.67 KiB | Viewed 3394 times ]

_________________
Things work best when it matters the least, and ...
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:33 am
Posts: 92
Location: Canberra
This looks like it is an interesting development (apologies to linking to Facebook but the page doesn't require login)

https://www.facebook.com/largeautomotiv ... es?fref=nf

I know nothing more than whats on the page but certainly got my attention as I've spent the $$$ on three "good" steering boxes and replaced every steering component in my 1600 but was bitterly disappointed with the free play that still remained


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:54 pm
Posts: 1748
Location: Melbourne, VIC
I was just about to post this! Looks like a solid bit of kit, I'm very interested to hear how they perform once people get their hands on them.

_________________
build-threads.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:40 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Melbourne, Vic
Yes, having met the developer just this last weekend, in my opinion this is proving to be a very well thought out, comprehensive kit as, for example, it will also include a collapsible steering column, a new Toyota AE86 quick rack & pinion gear (as mentioned in the FB comments, etc) and has been designed and built with robustness, accuracy and performance in mind.

Although I don't profess or wish to speak for him at all, and I am sure he will have more to say on his development once he gets engineering approval for the design, I think this is an exciting development for the Datsun 1600 / 510, for sure.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:57 am 
Offline
Donating Member
User avatar
Donating Member

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:21 pm
Posts: 3180
Location: Blackburn, Victoria.
swanny wrote:
This looks like it is an interesting development (apologies to linking to Facebook but the page doesn't require login)

https://www.facebook.com/largeautomotiv ... es?fref=nf

I know nothing more than whats on the page but certainly got my attention as I've spent the $$$ on three "good" steering boxes and replaced every steering component in my 1600 but was bitterly disappointed with the free play that still remained


The guy who is developing this is actually a good friend of a good friend of mine. I've never met him but all my friend has to say about him is how much development he puts in to this and how pedantic he is, apparently every car he builds is awesome. So based on that I would expect this to be a very good thing.

_________________
green200b - aka Alistair

The fleet:
'80 200B GX - the green200b - hibernating
'81 RX-7 - 12A turbo, coilovers, 4.11 Torsen LSD - daily
'74 RX-2 - 13B bridgeport, 4.44 LSD - cruiser
'82 Hilux - 350 Chev, 4.3 Detroit Locker, 33s - 4WD

Dato200B wrote:
Green200B has forgotten more about 200Bs than we will ever know.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:13 am
Posts: 108
Location: Rockhampton, QLD, Aus
swanny wrote:
This looks like it is an interesting development (apologies to linking to Facebook but the page doesn't require login)

https://www.facebook.com/largeautomotiv ... es?fref=nf

I know nothing more than whats on the page but certainly got my attention as I've spent the $$$ on three "good" steering boxes and replaced every steering component in my 1600 but was bitterly disappointed with the free play that still remained

Makes me sad to read that this system will ONLY suit the SRs :(

I think that is hogwash though as, with a lot of the crap cut off of the top of it, i can make it work for the mounting cradle idea i have for the rotar :D I got REALLY excited about this design. There is A LOT to these so, pedantic/ANAL is exactly the mentality you'll wanna have when working on them :D

Pretty exciting to read as the updates carry on :D

_________________
The Gene Pool Needs More Chlorine.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 2:20 am
Posts: 73
Location: Inner west Sydney
Have another read. The design is modular and he says it will fit SR, L series and FJ. It's just SR to begin with


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:13 am
Posts: 108
Location: Rockhampton, QLD, Aus
wu1600 wrote:
Have another read. The design is modular and he says it will fit SR, L series and FJ. It's just SR to begin with

Sorry mate, probably wasn't all that clear. I am putting a rotary engine into my 510... so, when i said that it "only suits SRs", i mainly meant something more along the lines of, "Gosh darnnit!! It doesn't suit a rotary engine and nor will it for quite some time but, being that it might have completely changed the potential for handling in these cars (i know that they handled well to begin with), it is probably worth my while asking the gentleman if he can remove what would be superfluous to my needs, and get the bare unit."

My mistake (^_^)

_________________
The Gene Pool Needs More Chlorine.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group