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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:41 am 
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I'm sure this question has been done to death and I have heard a few different things but I'd like to get the good info an hold onto it via a thread so I can keep an eye out for 1 for a future build.

I think I read the 260z is 1 of the better options due to the stubs being easy to adapt for custom shafts but are rare as hens teeth.

I'm not fussed to pick up an open centre item an have to put a LSD centre in but would prefer to find something 4.1 or better and would prefer to look at CV shaft options.

Can you please enlighten me, I realise this may not be the cheapest option or easiest thing to do and may require a good workshop to adapt the half shafts but I assume there will be a good place for the job here in Adelaide.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:05 pm 
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Please try and use the search function.
Its all on here if you study the info enough, you just need to sort through the banter to find what you need.
I've got a few minutes thoough, so heres what i think:

You need to decide what ratio you want and if you want a limited slip centre or an open centre.
At the very minimum you need to make/buy a custom moustache bar,
Image
then get a pair of unijoint axles and output shaft-side flanges from a 260z/280zx,
Image
and an r200 'longnose' differential of course.
If you use the old datsun Z type R200 you wont need to modify anything to fit to an existing R160/R180 tailshaft in the 1600.
Bad news with the Z-car R200's are the ratio's are a bit average mainly having 3.5/3.7 etc and all had 'open' centres.
Image
You will need to look for the later 280zx with manual trans to get a 3.9:1 ratio.
If you want other ratio's like 3.9/4.1/4.4 etc you need to look out for import Skylines like the DR30/HR31/Passage/S12 silvia turbo's or late model Z31na (except 88 model).
Image
All of the skyline diffs had different tailshaft flanges so you will need to either cut off the skyline tailshaft unijoint and diff yoke mating flange and weld this onto your existing 1600 tailshaft or alternatively swap the flange/yoke over from the Z-car R200 for it to bolt together.
Those Skyline diffs mentioned are all clutch pack lsd's and are commonly used in competition vehicles due to be easily rebuilt by replacing the clutch/friction discs in side them
Image
and all come with cv axles too which is a great strength upgrade from uni's.
These Skyline cv's differ in design between non turbo and turbo models.
Turbo models being beefier units with thicker axles and larger cv's, companion flanges and stub axle spline diameter.
Image
Image
but you must be prepared to make custom cv axles and mate these to companion flanges like the 6bolt Mr30 Skyline etc. Be aware that Dr30's also have a '6bolt' companion flange but are approx 10mm larger in diameter (which may require grinding clearance on the swing arm) and fit the larger axle shaft spline diameter of 28mm (1600/MR30 is 26mm).
Image
Viscous LSD centres are different and use different output shafts (one noticably longer than the other).
Image
I'd stay clear of these but they can be used so long as you use the matching 'viscous' outputs shafts with the 'viscous' diff centre.
Viscous r200's are commonly found in 88 Z31t and Y31 Cima. The output shaft spline is different too apparently. The details of this are on this site somewhere too.
Also be aware that some R200's like R31na/Y31 etc have different rear covers with two vertical bolt hole mounting points etc.
Image
The maddat moustache bars ive seen to suit 1600 are made to suit the two 'horizontal' stud mount type like Z-car or DR30 etc.
Image
If you get the wrong type you will need to source one of these rear covers also or modify the moustache bar to suit.
There are some high capacity versions with cooling fins on some models like y31 Cima and Z31 lsd's.
Image
If i were you i'd look for a Z-car diff and unijoint axle setup initially which will get you going,
Image
then track down an import skyline diff later with an lsd centre and better ratio's and swap it in down the track and consider cv axles if your still keen or making a fair bit of power or will be using slicks when drag racing etc.
Image
Hope this gives you a rough reference.
regards Nick.


Heres a few threads that might help also:
http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... =r200+260z

http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... =r200+260z

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1261


Last edited by nick on Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:30 pm, edited 21 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:15 pm 
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Can CV axles be shortened to suit 1600's?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:11 pm 
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Yes, if there is enough material on the axle a machinist can turn them down in a lathe for example and respline the ends to suit.
The machined axle may or may not need hardening afterwards.
This is reasonably expensive to do (~$300-$600) and there are many combinations of cv's, axles and companion flanges that can be made to fit...
A bit of research and measuring is involved aswell as consideration as to what parts are available to you etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:40 pm 
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I really don't have huge amounts of time for it so when 1 comes up an I've got the money (e.g. the HR31 example for sale in parts at the moment) I may just grab it an hope it can be machined down to suit. $300-600 I can live with....

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:49 pm 
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GL! :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:00 pm 
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I can get hold of a r31 coupe diff for $400 of yr interested. In good nic too.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:15 am 
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I'll give it some thought but since I'm still looking for the car to stick the motor and gearbox in, I might just hold off for the moment.

The red '71 on carpoint is almost perfect in that it has the full datsport handling/braking/suspension kit which I dreamt about for years with my first to 1600's but here in SA built on or before January '71 has its advantages so im holding out for now.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:42 am 
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*Updated my first reply a bit and added pics.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:15 pm 
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Cheers Nick,

Much appreciated, I was familiar with a large % of all of that but you have clarified a few things for me as well.

There's a few things I'm still not 100% sure on wondered if you could clarify:-

Quote:
Turbo models being beefier units with thicker axles and larger cv's, companion flanges and stub axle spline diameter. but you must be prepared to make custom cv axles and mate these to companion flanges like the 6bolt Mr30 Skyline etc. Be aware that Dr30's also have a '6bolt' companion flange but are approx 10mm larger in diameter (which may require grinding clearance on the swing arm) and fit the larger axle shaft spline diameter of 28mm (1600/MR30 is 26mm).


Do you know if the larger companion flange clears the Datsport swing arms?

As I asked before the CV axles (splined section) need to be shortened (or is that only in the viscous units?)

What about the actual half shalf axle, do they need to be shortened, being that they are from a wider wheel base car?

I think I'll be looking to try and pick up the whole lot off 1 car when I find it so it all fits together and just has to be adapted to 1600.

Alex

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:45 pm 
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No probs Alex, after i started editing my post i got a bit carried away as i had a few pics saved on my puter which needed a home neway.
To clarify:
All cv axles are too long and need to be shortened. By cv axle i just mean the solid axle rod that connects to the inner and outer cv races. This axle has splines on both ends and typically when the cv's are removed from this rod it will only need to be shortened and resplined on one end only unless a complete new axle is machined up using stronger steel etc.
Most people find this is not required as there is plenty of strength in a factory axle even after being machined.
Heres a pic of a pair of axles that have had this done to them (taken from datsun.co.nz):
Image
Heres two pics of a shortened cv axle in a 1600 and some 6bolt companion flanges (hard to tell by the angle but look like the larger DR30 type) mounted on the swingarm:
Image
Image

and heres a pic of a standard dr30 swingarm and cv axle assembly. Note the difference in axle shaft length and also the difference in output shaft spline length compared to the viscous type pictured earlier:
Image

(The uj half shafts are just short enough to be used in a 1600 without modification so long as it isnt dropped on its guts as it will slightly bottom out on one side and require slight mods to reposition one of the cv races.
Ive seen this done by turning down the shaft slightly and moving the cv retaining circlip. This used to be written up on the Ratdat website but i cant find it atm.)

As there are two sizes of cv connecting parts (cv axle splines and axle shaft splines) in the turbo and non turbo models you need to make sure you mix and match the correct parts to fit.
Some stuff is interchangeable between models due to cv's coming out on many different turbo and non turbo Nissans such as S12/Dr30/Mr30/280zxT/HR31/Z31/Y31.
You can imagine there is quite a few different ways you can approach this and not everyone does it the same.

The splines inside the diff dont change unless you go viscous or start mucking around with some of the short nose diffs but thats another story.

Most likely using the larger 'turbo' stuff will require modifications to standard 1600 parts such as the swingarm and its bearings etc.
You will see on some american forums especially that some people have cut the whole bearing retainer off the turbo models swingarm to fit the larger axle shaft, bearings and brake caliper mount etc. It can get fairly involved as you can imagine.
Baz should be able to let you know what works with his products. Drop him an email. :wink:


Last edited by nick on Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:55 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:02 pm 
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Cool

Well once I've got a donor car an fitted the bits I've gathered I'll be in touch again and find out when there's a meet on an show you what I'm up to.....

Alex

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 10:08 pm 
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Some great posts here Nick.

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:26 pm 
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Hi Mate,

I have a 4.37 for sale with a trick LSD centre if your interested??

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 8:40 pm 
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one to consider that I don't think was mentioned was swapping over a S15 centre into a open centre long nose R200

S15 runs a helical centre and is a pretty terrible ratio so they go quite cheap for what they are....I got a complete S15 diff with output shafts (a must as they are unique to the s15 centre) and drive shafts for $200 and a open centre longnose r200 for $300, swapped centre over for roughly $200 inc all new seals and bearings.

I didn't use the drive shafts and even sold them for $150

Works out pretty damn cheap if you can get all the bits together for a rebuilt R200 longnose diff with helical centre


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